Friday, 29 February 2008

Something For The Ladies #3

Right then, it's Friday. Time to give the womenfolk of Todger Talk an advisory seeing-to. Here's the drill;

Ladies: If there's ever been anything about men you've wanted to know but were afraid to ask, or wanted a male viewpoint on a certain relationship niggle you're going through, drop an email to us at todger dot talk at googlemail dot com. Every week, we shall pick one out and answer it to the best of our capabilities.

Gentlemen: We would very much appreciate your input on a weekly basis, so the comments section of each Something For The Ladies post will be yours and yours alone. In other words, all female comments will be deleted. Sorry ladies, but in this case we'd be very grateful if you'd hush those sweet keystrokes and let the chaps have their say. Just for today though, we love hearing from you the rest of the week.

This week's question...

CC writes: I am only 25 and I am not being vain - men and women tell me that I am very attractive. My life's in a bit of a rut (my career - I'm a new attorney - isn't what I'd like, but I think that's normal) but I'd still like regular companionship or at least sex (the kind that involves a modicum of respect - not so much one night stands). Why does it seem no one's interested, and being forward only gets me in trouble? When I meet men I am attracted to, they always flirt with me - but then either they immediately want sex, or they just move on and find other people. I don't have bad breath and I do have friends. Is there something I can do to keep their interest, and go from sex interest to love interest?

'Mr Sex' says: Hmm. I think the key here is the second part of your question, so I'm gonna focus on that and let Sam handle the other bits. If you're trying to go from 'sex' to 'love', aren't you going about things arse-about-face? Yes, meeting a saucy madam and immediately getting down to the nitty is all very well and good - but in a lot of cases, where do you go from there?

This may sound hard to believe, but proper men actually adore the thrill of the chase - the feeling that something is slowly building to a crescendo. We love those moments when we hold each other's gaze a bit too long, and start to realise that those goodbye hugs seem to be getting longer and longer. As Jacques Brunswick said in that episode of The Simpsons when he was getting ready to finally cop off with Marge after weeks of flirty bowling lessons...

To the most beautiful moment in life;
better than a deed,
better than a memory,
The moment . . .
of anticipation!

Please don't think I'm suggesting you're slagging it about at the moment. Nor am I saying that you should be a prick-tease. But I think the problem that you and a lot of us have is that we're so excited about being able to run around the sweetshop of no-strings sex, that when we finally work out what we want, we discover that we've forgotten the art of courtship.

That sounds very Barbara Cartland-ish, I know, but if you want the right person to fall in love with you, you've got to give them the time to do so. Yes, he'll want to jump on your bones right away, but if you think he's a keeper, give him a chance to actually think why he wants to. If he loses interest, then he wasn't worth the steam off your piss anyway. If he doesn't, and fills the time by wanting to find out more about you, then off you go.

Sam says:
You are caught in the attraction trap. It’s a bit of a nastily ironic thing that actually makes life really quite hard for attractive women.

I remember two clients I had that were models – they were caught in the attraction trap. The men they fancied would never approach them, and the only men that did were player wanker types. The trouble was twofold; firstly they were approached by wankers so often their default flirting signal was essentially ‘fuck off’, and because they were so attractive decent men who fancied them were to scared to approach.

You have to realise that our society puts a ridiculously disproportionate emphasis on how attractive women are. Just a small difference in your level of attractiveness can make a huge difference in terms of earning power (e.g. models) or the way men react to you. If you really attractive, it makes a really, really big difference.

I suspect that you must be just over that attractiveness threshold where the average decent guy is really seriously intimidated about approaching. The catch 22 is that when women approach men they
(unfortunately) assume that those women want sex. Also as an attractive woman, quite a few men would secretly like to add you as a notch to their belt to brag about. Really, you are kind of caught between the devil and the deep blue sea.

Contary to popular belief, your attractiveness is actually a kind of disability on the relationship front, or rather it means you have to work a lot harder and smarter to get a guy who just isn't up for a shag.

The solution? Firstly, with guys you find attractive, you have to make it really obvious that you fancy them. I’m talking looking across, catching their eye, and giving them a smile. Secondly you have to make is really easy for them to approach you - e.g., going and standing at the bar next to them when they are getting drinks, playing the damsel in distress and asking them for help or directions etc. You make it really easy for them, but leave it to them to make the first move. That way you get over giving the impression that you are just up for a shag.

Secondly, you need to stick to the good-old fashioned rule of making a man wait. Unfortunately athough it’s the 21st century, if a woman sleeps with a man when they first meet, he tends to assume that she is not long relationship material. Snog him, yes, but make him wait until the 3rd or 4th date before you sleep with him. This also sorts the wheat out from the chaff on the male front; if he’s willing to wait that long, then it’s likely he’s more interested in something long term. Al's put it far more eloquently - make him love the anticipation of the chase, show plenty of interest, but make him wait and dream about the main meal!

Finally you might like to try, which is the Selfridges of internet dating. Essentially there are so many other hot and successful women on the site, you'll just blend in - so much so that you'll have to email the guys you fancy rather than wait for them to come to you.

Gentlemen of Todger Talk, what is your advice to this very attractive lady?


Boy said...

My advice is come and see me :D.

But in reality, everything said above is about right, particularly the thrill of the chase. It's all about being a tease, but making sure they'll know what they get if they wait. I'm currently seeing someone, and tonight is our 5th date I think? We've still only kissed, and it's really weird but I'm really enjoying the wait.

Just make yourself available, be prepared that there's going to be a lot of twats, but there are nice guys out there! They're just rare.

TheRose said...

There's an issue with the "make them wait" strategy - you're in danger of convincing the object of your desire that he's in the friend zone.

Not that I'm suggesting that you should definitely sleep with them on the first date, but you should also be careful that you don't appear to a) be interested in a "friend" way (see earlier posts on the site) or b) are playing with the bloke in question. It's a delicate balance.

I should also say that I'm not convinced by Sam's statement that "if a woman sleeps with a man when they first meet, he tends to assume that she is not long relationship material". Most of my relationships have featured pretty early sex, and I've never that I can recall even factored when we started shagging into whether or not I wanted to continue a relationship.

I would agree that making him wait will probably bore away the players, though, which can only be a good thing. And I wouldn't be particularly put off by waiting a couple of dates before sex, so...

One more tip - Internet dating is a fantastic boon for people like you. It seriously reduces the visual element, which is great, because men who might be afraid to approach you in real life won't be so afraid. Of course, that cuts both ways, so be prepared for lots of advances from people you'd never consider in a million years, but it WILL increase your chances of getting past the intimidation barrier.

(I know I've met some women via dating sites that I'd have never, ever approached in person, because, well, damn, I'd have been waaaay too intimidated.)

Just be careful with your choice of photos. You're going for "nice, mature, interesting, not smoking hot". Hiking pictures good, artistic profiles good, lingerie pictures bad.

(Standard disclaimer - I'm not a woman, I'm a bloke with a girly nickname.)

JL said...

Believe it or not, and as dumb as this may sound, change your look when you're out fishing.

I'm thinking of a woman I still know who I was far too intimidated to approach, who, when I first saw her, had perfect blonde hair, a skintight sweater, and painted-on vinyl pants. She was SO hot I couldn't see myself even talking to her.

She turned out to be very earthy, a kind of gamer-geek, and a wonderful person with a fantastic personality. But I had to meet her through a gamer-geek friend.

If she hadn't been done up so perfectly, I likely would have been much more comfortable, but as it was, I had to learn to look past the stunner and talk to the human being inside the magazine spread.

This sounds stupid, but really, being TOO done up is like armor. Men love pursuit, of course, but they also love vulnerability.

Where is the need for another person in the life of someone who is visually presenting themselves as already perfect?

Just a thought. If you are so good-looking, maybe a cheesy T-shirt and torn jeans are better for your chances of meeting someone nice.

Shallow advice, but valid, I think.

Anonymous said...

Basically, everyone is right. No first date sex. The thrill of the chase is good. Up to a point. Don't hold out too long. Only wait to the second or third or fourth date. But make sure you snog on the first (or latest second) date so the bloke knows you're not just being good friends.

JL said...

What is that? No more male comments?

What a bummer.

Anonymous said...

Flirting is great... In a way more delicious than actually consummating: the moments that 'Mr Sex' talks about where your stares last too long and the briefest or merest touch electrifies your body. The almost certain knowledge (and even more beautiful if it is tacit) that if you (as a man) decided to "move in for the kill" your advances would be reciprocated is an exquisite feeling, and although it can be frustrating (or confusing, if you're in another relationship!), in a way it's better than the "real thing". I know quite a lot of blokes wouldn't agree with me, maybe they're the players referred to above, but that's how it is with me.

badgerdaddy said...

Sorry JL, only saw this on Monday and it looks pretty well covered...

Michael Anderson said...

I've just seen this post and thought I'd add my 2p worth.

CC, I think that part of the difficulty you are having is that you, yourself are unsure of WHO you want.

Once you've decided who you are after and what exactly you want from him (eg sex/sex friends/relationship) then you should focus your attention on bagging your man.

Flirt, but at the same time, try and get to know him as a person and decide if you want to be with him. If the answer is 'yes' then you need to make him like you as a person. Obviously, I don't know you from Eve, CC, but if you are friendly or funny or intelligent or deep or all of the above, show him that you are. Soon, he'll see beyond your looks and realise what a great person you are. He'll eralise that he really enjoys just hanging around with you, and at that point, he'll be yours (for now)

I think the crucial thing here is not sex, as you alluded to, but time. I honestly think that when you decide to sleep with him is irrelevant. What's important is spending time with him so he can get to know you and get to like you.

Whether that time is at work, on date(s), on the telephone or cuddled up in bed after a sex session doesn't matter. What's important is getting him to like you by showing him the attractive parts of your personality.

Hope this helps

- Michael