Saturday, 23 February 2008

‘Mr Sex’: If you need an explanation on how depressing this is, then we got a LONG day ahead of us

It's not the policy of Todger Talk to post over the weekend, but then I saw this article on the BBC News website, commissioned in the wake of the conclusion of the Ipswich prostitute murder trial. If you want to see of how completely fucked-up certain men can get over sex, here you go. On one hand, you want to commend the punters who have been interviewed for their honesty, but you also want to use the other hand to slap the living shit out their ignorant, bell-endy faces.

Patrick, Pete and Mark have some things in common. They are all successful, professional men, who work long hours and have to travel away from home. But what really unites them is that they all use prostitutes and are utterly unashamed about it.

I think we’re supposed to be impressed by the fact that they’re all professional and successful, as opposed to, say, Peter Sutcliffe.

He (Patrick) does not appear to have a problem leading a double life with his partner. "She doesn't know. I don't believe it's changed my relationship with her in any way. To some extent I feel closer to her.

This was round about the part where my hand automatically rose to my chin. How does nipping out to pay someone to be de-spunked not change anyone’s relationship with someone they’re married to? Giving up on any hope of a sex life with your missus to order to dip your hand into the Lucky Bag of paid sex with assorted prostitutes doesn’t change your relationship with your partner how? More importantly, how does going off to get a gobble off someone in a massage parlour bring one closer to one’s partner?

"I don't have to demand things that maybe I was demanding from her, like oral sex and things like that. She didn't like doing that. Now I no longer have to ask."

Ooh. ‘Demand’. That’s an interesting word, isn’t it, kids? Maybe if Patrick hadn’t treated a nosh like it was a birthright because he saw someone on a wank video having one, maybe he wouldn’t have to be forking out for one. Just a thought.

Management consultant Pete, 40, from Oxfordshire, is blunt about his motivation for buying sex. "I've not had sex with my wife for at least five years," he says. "In simple terms, it's how I get sex. I've not noticed a change in our relationship at all. "There is no emotional involvement [with the prostitutes]. At the risk of sounding cruel and heartless I don't think I do have a moral issue with it. If I did I wouldn't have done it."

Admittedly, he does have a point here; yes, he is sounding cruel and heartless. If you want sex but don’t want emotional involvement, maybe sex just isn’t for you. If you want an ego boost and can afford it, maybe you should have a wank into a handful of fifty pound notes instead. You'll feel just as good afterwards, and you can run the notes under a tap and put them on the radiator.

Mark says he used to spend a lot of time trying to pick women up in clubs and bars. Now the 31-year-old business consultant from London doesn't have the time.

Well, exactly. Why bother wasting your time talking to a woman like a human being when there’s no guarantee of unprotected anal in a car park at the end of it?

Patrick views it as a totally mundane transaction between adults.

So if it's mundane, why are you doing it, you fucking gibbon?

"I see us as adults. I want to pay and someone wants to sell. As long as I'm not hurting them in any way what harm am I doing. I'm distributing my wealth to people who don't have it."

Well, that puts a new spin on 'trickle-down' economics.Yes Patrick, all of these women desperately wanted to grow up to make a living by sucking on some sweaty, half a century-old IT spod-cock. Presumably, this twat also thinks that, by racking up another line of Wanker Powder on a toilet seat, he’s helping to put a Playstation 3 in the hands of some poor Bolivian urchin.

Pete suggests the world of street prostitution is "probably the grubbiest, grimiest bit". Patrick says he is not tempted, saying it is "risky and not comfortable". Mark's view is also revealing: "There is a slightly exploitative element to street prostitution."

Lovely bit of snobbery here. It’s a bit like viewing child porn in an ornate frame in a country mansion, and looking down your nose at people who watch it on the internet.

"There's always a lot of girls that I know," says Patrick. "We have a good camaraderie. I treat them as my friends and I feel to some extent they confide and talk to me."

THEY FUCKING HATE YOU, PATRICK. THEY LAUGH AT YOUR SONIC THE HEDGEHOG TIE, AND IMITATE YOUR GURNING PIG-MASK OF A COME FACE ON THEIR FAG BREAKS.

Mark's position is clear. If he did meet a woman he suspected was trafficked he would do something about it, there and then.

What, you're gonna slither down the Bat-Pole and mash down assorted Albanian henchmen with obligatory POW! and BIFF! effects?

The real root of prostitution is in the economic system and not the criminal laws, says Patrick. "There are a lot of single mothers who feel that's the only way they can make money. If you want to get rid of prostitution the way is to reform the welfare system."

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(That was me bashing my head against the keyboard over and over again)

Should prostitution be legalised? Course it should. Should shit-thick ignorance be criminalised in its place? Hell yeah. These deluded nob-ends seem to be living in a world where the women loll about on beds in fluffy mules with fruity foreign accents, capitalising on the cow-like frigidness of the local womenfolk by earning a nice bit of cash for their dear old Mams in Potatovia in a sexy, sexy way until Richard Gere comes along, and pimps are evidently crazy funsters with big Afros, that’s all.

According to the BBC, one in ten men currently use prostitutes. And you can forget the traditional myth that they’re all henpecked old men scurrying away from a hatchet-faced missus brandishing a rolling pin; most of them are single and in the prime of their lives. Let’s abandon this ludicrous pretence that it doesn’t happen, but let’s also junk the even more ludicrous pretence that the Pavlovian urge of 10% of the male population to have their genitals joylessly milked in a room above a garage in the scabby end of town by someone who needs fast cash is anything other than a fucked-up situation.


53 comments:

Anonymous said...

You're saying the only thing that differentiates Johns from serial killers is wealth and status?!

If doing something isn't part of someone's relationship, then how does doing it with another person affect that relationship?

We're in the 21st centry, mate; giving and receiving oral *IS* a quite reasonable baseline requirement for any sexual relationship, for both parties.

Buying groceries or catching a cab are also mundane transactions, and yet we choose to do those too, you fucking gibbon.

Snobbery?! Because they choose not risk arrest and disease when instead they can order a legal escort who they're much less likely to catch something off?

If he met a trafficked woman he'd probably report it to the police. They have taskforces for that sort of thing, you know.

Fuck off with your presumptuous and preposterous load of sermonising wank, you unmitigated tosser.

Anonymous said...

I'm afraid I can't agree with the sanctimonious tone of your piece here. The overall point, that 10% of men paying for sex is pretty sick is not unreasonable, but I'm not convinced that the fault can be laid at the feet of men believing the reality of wank-vids. A number of my friends have dumped men for not giving out enough oral - welcome to the 21st century.

Surely the rise in the prostitution and its use is a symptom of modern life that can't be considered in isolation. For balance, consider this story: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=510248&in_page_id=1879#StartComments A woman has decided that she can't really be bothered to sleep with her husband any more - she'll keep him around as a financial crutch until the children are older, then divorce him and doubtless attempt to ruin some other bloke's life. If this is the alternative, a simple financial transaction with a sex-worker seems a lot less dishonest and sordid in comparison.

Sure, I'd love to live in a world where two people get together and live happily ever after; compatible and compromising. But life can too often be a daily grind of stupid bosses, discontented spouses, bills, demanding children, elderly parents, traffic wardens, petty bureaucracy and the general irritating niff-naff and trivia of daily life. Amongst all this, good sex can be an oasis of pleasure. If you have the time to develop a full mature relationship with a potential sex partner that doesn't impinge on any of the rest, good on you. Failing that, we all make compromises while we try and keep all the balls in the air. Blame the whole of the consumer society, not one corner of it.

Anna said...

I agree with this post, actually, and I think these anonymous comments have a tragic attitude to sex and women.

Nottingham's 'Mr Sex' said...

I'd usually delete abusive bollocks like this, but 'Anonymous' (because they always are) has pretty much summed up everything I hate about punters.

You're saying the only thing that differentiates Johns from serial killers is wealth and status?!

Er, no. Just pointing out the desperation of people like that to put a veneer of respectability on a pretty rubbish way to go about things.

If doing something isn't part of someone's relationship, then how does doing it with another person affect that relationship?

So if you refused to go down on your girlfriend because you don't like it, you wouldn't you mind if someone else did? How very open of you.

We're in the 21st centry, mate; giving and receiving oral *IS* a quite reasonable baseline requirement for any sexual relationship, for both parties.

Christ, you're making it sound like a contractual obligation, mate. Do you put in performance targets as well? Next time you're about to start a relationship, tell your girlfriend if she's OK with you going off to pay someone for a nosh if she doesn't deliver, and tell us how '21st centry' she is with that.

Buying groceries or catching a cab are also mundane transactions, and yet we choose to do those too, you fucking gibbon.

You're comparing sex with buying food and using transport. God, you sound like an absolute catch. Can I introduce you to some of my friends? They'd love to meet someone who treated sexual intercourse with the same reverence as a packet curry.

Snobbery?! Because they choose not risk arrest and disease when instead they can order a legal escort who they're much less likely to catch something off?

Yeah, because it's all about your welfare, isn't it?

If he met a trafficked woman he'd probably report it to the police. They have taskforces for that sort of thing, you know.

They also have taskforces to catch people who use that sort of person as well, you know.

Fuck off with your presumptuous and preposterous load of sermonising wank, you unmitigated tosser.

Ha ha, someone trying to defend taking advantage of some poor woman on an industrial estate is calling me a 'tosser'. I was worried I was going a bit over the top on that post, but you've proved everything I said in one short burst of bleaty denial. Cheers mate.

Anonymous said...

Totally agree with Mr Sex! and Im glad that you have the balls to say it!

Peach said...

This is simply brilliant, fantastic writing and I still haven't stopped laughing. I have even rung a friend to tell him to read it and text two others. I can't nominate you for Post Of The Week yet as the nominations close til Monday and I bet by the time I get there someone else will have done so already.

Otherwise, I will.

Now, with all that aside, will you boys PLEASE submit something to THIS , this post maybe even, or I will set Ms R on you.

Nottingham's 'Mr Sex' said...

Anonymous 2, on the other hand, is making a lot more sense.

Yes, we're all encouraged to have madly interesting and fulfilling sex lives in a world that makes it harder and harder to have the kind of relationship that can fulfil those needs. Totally agree with that. We all know about the increasing commodification of sex. And the idea that all men who use prostitutes are all misongynist borderline psychopaths isn't true - which makes things even scarier.

But if you're in a relationship that is driving you to go to prostitutes, isn't that a sign that you should getting out of that relationship as fast as you possibly can?

As for the 'oasis of pleasure' bit, well yeah. Sex is ace, obviously. But in almost every case, when you're make the decision to go to a prostitute, you're putting a plaster on a brain haemorrhage. You're basically giving up on women as people you can have any kind of meaningful relationship with, whilst telling yourself that you're not attractive/rich/charismatic enough to get what you want from the opposite without forking over the cash. Bad enough attitude when you're middle-aged and married. Absolutely poisonous to yourself if you're in your twenties and single.

I think the truly offensive thing about that article is the idea put over by the interview subjects that they simply have to get their jollies with prostitutes in order to complete their wonderfully successful, respectable lives, and it's all those horrible wives and women in bars who don't immediately roll over and get their knickers off after being spoken to who have driven them to it.

monkey said...

i have to admit a really good argument but you can not deny that this (dare i say it) is the oldest trade in the book, and unfortunately to follow this comes the crime and even worse the murder.
and just because i say this does not mean i condone it but i think there is very little we can do about it, it would still go on men and woman will pay for sex in one way or another, the way they do it depends on the person and the worse kind is the rich.
you can look around the world and prostitution is a massive business and although it is degrading to men and woman the fact that it makes so much money means it will never be eradicated. all we can do is educate people about the dangers and moral implications of the act.
think safety first and always pad up!!

Nottingham's 'Mr Sex' said...

Well, exactly. Which is why we should have legalised the thing years ago.

TheRose said...

What do you think, given your obviously strong feelings on the subject, about Suzannah Breslin's "Letters from Working Girls" project (http://lettersfromworkinggirls.blogspot.com/) ? It seems to present quite an ambiguous impression of life as a prostitute, which contrasts rather strongly with your assertions that, for example, all prostitutes violently hate their customers.

Nottingham's 'Mr Sex' said...

Rose, I linked to that site (and the companion site, Letters From Johns) a couple of weeks ago.

I think it's very interesting. Looking forward to more posts. Yeah, it's feasible for a prostitute and a punter to have some kind of positive relationship while they're pulling their pants up afterwards (putting aside the fact that the former wouldn't be with the latter if there wasn't any cash involved). But probably not with someone who sounds as horribly ignorant as the Patricks of this world.

thegirl said...

I agree with every single point you made, Mr. Sex. Also, prostitutes' feelings/experiences aside, I feel dreadfully sorry for all those women whose partners are paying other women for sex. Sounds to me like those wives and girlfriends are leading pretty sexless, emotionally fragmented lives. Fucking tragic, if you ask me. Whatever happened to two people openly communicating their wants and needs to each other?

Anonymous said...

Have to disagree with you.

Virtually all relationships between men and women are a form of prostitution. The vast majority of relationships have the man as the provider, and the woman gets those resources in return for her companionship (ie, sex). I see a lot of relationships where the woman is accustomed to being sought-after, but let's face it. Her main asset is often her looks, and those are deteriorating. Many women cannot face up to this fact and continue to act as if they are "wearing the pants". Around age 35-40 they are declining while their man gets more attractive to other women. It's no wonder many of these women end up alone.

If your husband treats you well and you're cutting him off in the bedroom, you're basically stealing from him. If all he does in return is screw prostitutes, consider yourself lucky.

JL said...

I think the risk is in the money. Introducing pay into a transaction involving another human being’s body sets up a power dynamic, in which the customer is in a position of power over the provider. Such a situation is all-too-easily, and all-too-often, abused. How many of us have had abusive or crazy bosses at a job? Nutty customers? How many of us want that boss or customer to have control, even for a brief period, over our physical body?

Men who pay for sex don’t want to get off; they want control.

Homer said...

*applauds Mr. Sex wildly*

Anna said...

JL is totally right...

To the most recent anoymous comment, can I say, that's the most cynical assessment of relationships I've ever heard! If that's the only kind of relationship you have any experience of, then I feel sorry for you, but real, equal, two-way companionship exists too.

thene said...

Anna, I feel bad for him too. He's clearly trapped in some dreary parallel dimension where women don't have sexual desires, have no personal income, and where men aren't sought out for companionship (or for their wonderful cocks, and doesn't everyone here on this blog appreciate cock?) I don't know how our internets penetrated (um...) this other dimension, but I hope we can widen this portal and bring him back to the real world.

Mr Sex, this is a wonderful post. I read the news article itself yesterday, and it reminded me of everything escort bloggers vent about; men deluding themselves into thinking that the escort is their friend, and into thinking that all prostitutes were totally into them, that they see no women who'd rather not be doing it, so there must be no women who'd rather not be doing it, yah yah yah. (see here, and especially here).

The only point where I'd disagree with you is this one: If you want sex but don’t want emotional involvement, maybe sex just isn’t for you. - surely that's not necessarily true. You just need someone else who wants sex but not emotional involvement. It's hardly impossible, it's just easier to pretend you have it than to actually have it.

Nottingham's 'Mr Sex' said...

I was wondering when someone would drop the 'all relationships are prostitution' bomb at some point.

The vast majority of relationships have the man as the provider, and the woman gets those resources in return for her companionship (ie, sex).

...or else she'd be flung out the cave, right? NO BRONTO-BURGER FOR WILMA!

I see a lot of relationships where the woman is accustomed to being sought-after, but let's face it. Her main asset is often her looks, and those are deteriorating.

*wince*

Many women cannot face up to this fact and continue to act as if they are "wearing the pants".

Well, if you're letting some woman walk all over you because she happens to be fitter than a butcher's dog, that's a problem right there.

Around age 35-40 they are declining

...actually, their sex drive is at its peak...

while their man gets more attractive to other women.

Yeah, I get bombarded by spam mail for DILF sites all the time too.

It's no wonder many of these women end up alone.

It's also no wonder they're having it in town running around like they've won three lotteries in a row.

If your husband treats you well and you're cutting him off in the bedroom, you're basically stealing from him.

And if you think you're entitled to get your end away just because you've put a load of Findus Crispy Pancakes in the freezer and knocked a shelf up, no wonder she's not arsed.

Seriously mate, check this out: women actually like sex too. No, really. They do.

Nottingham's 'Mr Sex' said...

Thene: "The only point where I'd disagree with you is this one: If you want sex but don’t want emotional involvement, maybe sex just isn’t for you. - surely that's not necessarily true. You just need someone else who wants sex but not emotional involvement. It's hardly impossible, it's just easier to pretend you have it than to actually have it."

Ah, I wondered when someone was going to pull me up on that. What I was trying to get at there was that, even on the most random one-night stand or cynical fuckbuddy arrangement there's a least a scrap of emotional involvement, even if it's 'yeah, you'll do for tonight'. There's an element of choice and trust and attraction involved on both sides.

In prostitution, there isn't any. The punter wants the prostitute; the prostitute wants the money. And maybe I'm being hopelessly naive, but I don't see the point of that. At all.

supergirl said...

Top post, Sexmeister.

Re: Mr 'Virtually all relationships between men and women are a form of prostitution'; I get a whiff of somebody who habitually posts on those misogynistic sites that's either a man who's been screwed in a divorce, or who just hates women.

TheRose said...

Mr Sex: Ah, I wondered where I'd found 'em from.

I must admit, the Letters from Johns site always sounds far more tragic and horrible to me than the Letters from Working Girls. The latter, so far, seem to fit the pattern "I needed cash/wanted to rebel/both so I started selling sex. It wasn't horrible, but was clearly bloody unsafe, so I stopped after a while. However, it taught me stuff about myself."

The Letters from Johns are frequently just tragic.

Back on topic - one canard that keeps coming up is

"Men who pay for sex don’t want to get off; they want control."

Evidence, please?

I really don't see this. It seems that what most people who are paying for sex want is to forget that they're paying and concentrate on the sex - else why is the "girlfriend experience" so popular?

And you almost never see ads for professional submissives, in the BDSM sense of the word - which you would have thought would be incredibly popular if basically every man who goes to a prostitute is looking to control and abuse her.

Finally, none of the descriptions of what "punters" are looking for - not in the BBC article, not on Letters from Johns or Working Girls, not anywhere I've seen - mention or imply a desire for control. A desire for comfort, yes, companionship, yes, pleasure, yes, control or abuse, not so much.

I just don't see it. I see people who are missing something desperately in their lives and are willing to pay for a fascimile of it - or, possibly, in some cases and depending on what they're looking for, the genuine article, just in bite-sized, paid-for form.

Carlos Walters said...

The world of prostitution is very complex: it is difficult, although not impossible, to disengage sex and feelings; there are many moral issues involved, specially in the Western world (sex is bad for many Western religions, etc), etc. The BBC article is terribly oversimplifying the picture selecting three clients that look like they are at best half-dumb. Mr. Sex makes mince of them like he was fighting with a drunk guy. ;-)

But prostitution is not a simple thing to be regarded as "poor girls doing that" or "bastard men using women". At £200 rates for a session of protected sex limiting to a massage, a blowjob and a fuck (with a guy that can pay £200 for that, so not some rock-bottom derelict), there is plenty of girls that would do it if they were sure that nobody would ever know. What jobs pays that? In advanced countries where the morals towards sex are totally different to ours, like Japan, prostitution is becoming so common between high-school girls that the authorities are worried that the girls may lose interest in studying and getting a job (when you are 16 you just want the money, you are not interested in knowing what you will do when you hit 30 or beyond).

I totally agree with Mr.Sex that prostitution should be legalised: it would make human trafficking more difficult, and it would give to willing prostitutes the same rights as any other worker that provides a services at the rate she wants, to the costumers she wants. Many people ignore that according to prostitutes' associations in several countries -including at least UK, France, Spain, Netherlands and Sweden, where the anti-punters laws have not eradicated prostitution, but they have switched streets for flats, and car-chasing for internet boards- the majority of prostitutes are willing, despite what the tabloids say. They never dreamed of becoming prostitutes, but they never dreamed of cleaning houses or frying chips either... and one job pays £6 and the other pays £150 by the hour.

Anna said...

Carlos, this might interest you - apparently it isn't just Japan where students are paying off their debts with sex.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/education/student/article3396280.ece

As a student myself I can see the appeal of 'solving the money problem' - I'd just never do it because I know what other problems it could give rise to.

butterflywings said...

Applauds Mr Sex.
Well said.
Completely agree.
Not sure about legalisation though...afaik Sweden has worked pretty well, and legalisation doesn't stop trafficking, abuse etc.

Clair said...

How many prostitutes earn £150 an hour? Certainly not the poor girls who were involved in the Suffolk murders, who'd probably have done it for £20, to cover their drug habit.

Clair said...

Oh, and I'd say that mass murderer Steven Wright wanted control, which was why he killed five women. Not your typical punter, but...

Lau said...

Absolutely brilliantly well written and such a relief to read a male perspective like this. This blog is a joy to read.

Anonymous 'blokes', it's not too late to change your way of thinking and become someone capable of having meaningful relationships with women - we're human beings too you know.

moo said...

What about men (and sometimes women) that use male prostitutes?

JL said...

By ‘control’ I meant the desire for the control of the sexual activity, with the only input from the other party (the prostitute) being what that person is being paid to do or accept. In such a circumstance, the sex act is a transaction with no higher meaning. Some might consider this empowering for both men and women, to have sex with ‘no baggage’. Personally, I’ve found the men I’ve known who regularly frequent prostitutes to be incredibly self-absorbed, and contemptuous of women, regarding them as a sort of fleshy Kleenex. Why they don’t just use Kleenex is a mystery to me.

Some men are just lonely, or in some way unable to have the usual relations with women they would like, and find their solace in paying for sex. But I doubt such men would pay for sex given a reasonable alternative or a halfway supportive partner, and in my observation such transactions do not make those men at all happy or satisfied.

In my (surprisingly extensive) observation and dealings with prostitutes (I managed low-income apartments for many years, and have spent a good share of my life in the underbelly of society), I’ve found most of them do it from desperate financial necessity, be it drugs or formula for their kids, and given any choice would be doing something else.

Many female prostitutes also do it as it’s easy to do. There is always a man willing to pay for it, ergo, they will always be employed, and as cash-in-had goes, its fairly easy money, and quick to boot. The risks are known to all. So some do it out of relative convenience. It’s easier, pays better, and offers more freedom than, say, an office job at XCorp. Is that empowering? Who knows.

It’s not something I’ve ever done. But I’ve seen a lot of it. Just some observations.

Alice said...

I've been following this blog for a while. I must say, well done for writing this post. It's good to see that not the entirety of the world has gone to hell in a hand basket.

I visited a local forum for "freelancers" before and found the same sort of attitude of the men interviewed all over the place and frankly, it was just sickening.

The Loner said...

On the way to my local chip shop,I was approached by a gorgeous elfin girl.I didn't clock her for a pro till she offered.I was gutted.I asked her why she did it.she had a kid,and a job she could do just didn't make ends meet.She said she didn't do it very much,but sometimes bills come all at once,and the TV people just caught her kid watching the hoobs.I ask if the dad was around and she just gave a sneerful pfft.
A group of men were catching up from behind us as we walked,I didn't like the look of them.She was eyeing them up,but didn't seem too enthusiastic about it.They were still aome distance away,but sounded like animals.I pushed 20 quid in her hand and asked her to go home.She smiled at me.I looked away sharpish cos my eyes were full of tears.She walked most of the way to the chippy with me then pecked me on the cheek at her turn off.I nearly asked her for a date.
I don't know if she just gave it 5 minutes and started work again.I had a feeling she might have gone out a couple hours later for the night clubs throwing out.
There you go.not a punter,just a mug.I hope to see her every time I go to the chippy but I haven't seen her since.I feel like Nately from Catch-22.
Any readers taken a woman off the game and lived happily ever after?

Anonymous said...

I am just a complete failure. Worthless. I have had sex with prostitutes because no ordinary woman wants me. Feel free to pour scorn but don't pity me. I am already dead.

Luka said...

You can tell the quality of a post by the standard of the Anonymous commenters.

This one was a belter. Loved it.

Ginny said...

Dear Mr "All relationships are a form of prostitution",

I hope that whichever poor woman is lumbered with you bites when she's giving you all the oral sex you're entitled to.

Any major dude with half a heart said...

Excellent post, Al. And fantastic stuff from assorted Anonymouses, especially the one who thinks all relationships are a form of prostitution. It is such a shame that he is not revealing his identity, because I would have liked to contact him with a view to borrow the time machine which transported him from 1856 to 2006.

Ms Robinson said...

Great stuff Al. I can't begin to address the 'all relationships are prostitution'. In any case I'd use words that the bloke wouldn't understand.

Nottingham's 'Mr Sex' said...

Well, who knows what that lad's been through? Maybe he had to flash the lights of his kiddie car in the kitchen every time he wanted his Mam to kiss a bruise better, only for his Dad to demand more money if it lasted more than 30 seconds.

thene said...

the loner - 'taking a woman off the game' is such a cliché that my first reaction to your comment was 'Faker, he totally made that story up'. Maybe you didn't, but 'rescuing' the poor down-on-her-luck whore with the heart of gold is a terrific cliché. It's also pretty ignorant of women's autonomy - what if she finds her job no more irritating than you find your job? What if she wants to plan her career moves herself rather than getting some guy to do it for her? I'm sure you've got a good heart but you sound like a White Knight to me.

Anna said...

"I am just a complete failure. Worthless. I have had sex with prostitutes because no ordinary woman wants me."

Yeah, my boyfriend used to feel the same way. Didn't have a girlfriend 'til he was 26. Now come on sunshine, stop being so down on yourself. Remember, confidence is attractive! :)

Luminara said...

How on earth do the men putting forward the "Of COURSE we're entitled to oral at our demand!" 'argument' actually manage to convince a woman to stick around long enough to 'demand' it anyway?!

Ginny said...

Luminara - I love the way as well such men seem to be assuming that women only have sex bceause they want the man to stick around...it's UNHEARD OF that they may actually ENJOY it as well, I guess.

Katy Newton said...

Great post.

If your husband treats you well and you're cutting him off in the bedroom, you're basically stealing from him. If all he does in return is screw prostitutes, consider yourself lucky.

OH MY FUCKING CHRIST. Reading some of the anonymous comments on here is like going to a newly opened Misogyny Museum.

loner said...

Blimey.thats me told,thene..real story clumsily written.
I'm not a writer.Sorry if I sound cliched."On the game" is a local colloquism.I've always used it.I dont go around trying to save any woman from their job.When I've lived with women,its been halfy half on everything-rent,bills,chores,holidays.we shagged because we wanted to.there was no demanding,apart from fidelity,but I certainly didnt snoop in their diaries or probe their mobiles for evidence of cheating.
I dont call the street girls whores.I dont ignore them like invisible lepers either.giving her money to go home was completely impulsive.Come and experience Middlesbrough at chucking out time-you would have given her cash too.I don't want to save her,I fancy her.Would you be happy with your partner going out and screwing other women for cash?Do you want to save him if you want him to stop?I don't agree with your white knight pidgeon hole.I don't use strip joints,pole dancing,prostitutes,massage parlours,escorts.I've seen one strippers tits for like half a second but it just felt wrong and I left the pub.I have seen rockbitch though,by accident..and errm..I wish I was deaf.
If she was in any other profession I would have at least asked her out for a coffee/lunch.Its not quite the same with a prostitute is it?Or should I really not care that shes a hooker?

Anonymous said...

Maybe I'm missing something here but there is something about the argument I don't get. It appears to me as though you are saying that all prostitution = exploitation. Assuming that we agree that exploitation is not a good thing I cannot see the logic of then suggesting that it should be legalized?

Also, from my (limited) understanding the best way to curtail an economic activity is to address both the supply & demanded sides. One way of addressing the demand side of prostitution is to engage punters as to why they use it. The kind of vitriolic attack on these guys -- irrespective of your view of them -- hardly creates an environment conducive to open discussion?

JL said...

In the ghetto areas of the US, it’s been my observation it’s customary for unattached women to accept gifts (money for groceries, or other ‘compensation’) from men for sex. This is not regarded as prostitution at all, but rather a gesture of appreciation.

It’s also not at all uncommon for women to simply augment their income with an occasional trick. Money for a new TV, or a bike for the boy, or whatever.

One older, unmarried man I knew would pick up an inexpensive prostitute every day, bring her back to his weekly motel room, and compensate at an agreed rate. The women were largely professional prostitutes, most with drug addictions. He used to go down to the county jail, wait outside in his Cadillac for hookers to come out in the morning, and pick them up. One of his ‘regulars’, however, was a single mother with a poorly-paying job at a bakery, and she had a few older male regulars she would have sex with in exchange for badly-needed money. He had no emotional interest in these women at all, and had no higher interest in life than how good his dick could feel. But as far as I know, he never harmed any of them.

Another woman was the attractive sister of a friend, from a poor family, who went to Nevada and became a highly paid prostitute, owned her own home, had a nice car, paid her taxes, and was, by all material standards, an upstanding member of society.

Is prostitution wrong? Not morally. But I have had prostitute tenants; and the men they attracted were literally a fucking nightmare, and many of them were dangerous people. The societal disruption of prostitution makes it not something I want around me.

It probably has its place, like anything else. But it is hazardous.

Nottingham's 'Mr Sex' said...

Maybe I'm missing something here but there is something about the argument I don't get. It appears to me as though you are saying that all prostitution = exploitation. Assuming that we agree that exploitation is not a good thing I cannot see the logic of then suggesting that it should be legalized?

Because the people actually doing it deserve the same rights as everyone else doing a shitty, exploitative dangerous job in a democratic society.

JL said...

You touched a nerve.

Lucy said...

Well said, showing a side of mankind that is admirable, keep writing and speading the good word :)

Carlos Walters said...

Anna, thanks for the link, although it does not work as is. :-( I think the blog automatically cut it down. I have found the article here, though:

http://tinyurl.com/2aatz2

Clair, may I understand from your words that prostitution is only bad if done at low rates? The students in the article provided by Anna report incomes of £450 per night, including the protection from an agency. How many jobs pay that?

If the problem is the low payment, then legalize prostitution, thus making sex slaves easy to detect and leaving sex mafias out of the game. Besides, it is a matter of workers' rights, as Mr. Sex has said.

Many of the comments for this blog entry look like coming from self-righteous "prostitution is bad", "males exploit females" kind of people (including that fake "I am dead" comment). Although everybody has the right to his/her own opinion, this kind of comments do nothing to solve the problem, if a problem it is.

Nottingham's 'Mr Sex' said...

Well, put it this way; would the punters be doing it if they already had decent sex lives, and would the prostitutes be doing it if they had the option to do something else? If the answer to both of those questions is 'No', than it's definitely a problem.

Regina Phalangee said...

I loved this post, including the comments afterwards, especially since it was written by a man. It's nice to see proof that not all men are bastards when the news is full of the worst misogynistic crimes. But it dosn't make men think that perhaps treating women like disposable fuck-objects is particuarly wrong, instead they try to convince everyone there is nothing remotely wrong with this attitude, and no-one has any intention of changing, because they are 'not guilty'. Well they are, and I don't agree with legalising prostitution, because I favour the Swedish model. More info on that here;
http://www.womenlobby.org/site/video_en.asp

Loner - On the contrary, you are a lovely writer, because that story made me think you are sweet, even if I did also suspect you might like to go around 'saving' women.
I am a single mother myself, who has fortunately never had to resort to prostitution, but sometimes I struggle to get by and have often despaired at the lack of opportunities available. Oh if only I could meet a 'respectable' man with a lot of money to either marry me, or fuck me in exchange for cash.
Well... I don't know... I think I'm reasonably clever and capable in my own right, and the fact that I have become disadvantaged simply by having children is a problem, as the father of my daughter did what many do, and buggered off, refusing all responsibility, and is therefore NOT overly disadvantaged. And yet, I am the one many accuse of making 'bad choices in life' - not him.
I have of course been plagued by the 'white knights' of the world who like to offer me help, but really, they are looking for a fuck.
No. I think I will remain celibate till I meet someone who is really worth fucking. Which is a shame, because I love sex,( am I allowed to say that?) but I will not be treated with the level of dis-respect and hatred that so many men are used to treating women with. And no amount of money could compensate me for effectively allowing myself to be raped. Which some are calling a 'business transaction'. Prostitution is the business of keeping women subordinate to men. And finally loner... I hope you meet the elfin again befor some misogynistic monster kills her.
TheRose... You just don't see the evidence? Try reading the paper.

SwissToni said...

Congratulations -- you've been voted Post of the Week !!

This is a tremendously prestigious award, as you know, and although it doesn't come with any kind of a prize as such, I assume you'll be feeling a warm glow about now.

Well done.

Oh, you do win something actually.... as a winner of POTW, you are cordially invited to take part in the judging process at a time of your choosing. See here for more details.

It's a great post and a well deserved winner.

ST

former call girl said...

Well I'm a sex worker and I actually agree with you about the selfish motives men have for seeking out porn and prostitutes. And it's true, they are NOT my friends. I act friendly and agreeable out of common courtesy. They treat me well in our sessions and everything seems nice, but inside I have almost no respect for their position.